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aus9
Status: Assistant
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 358
Location: Australia
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hi

sidux.com/index.php?module=Wikula&tag=Grub2Intro

starting from splashimages link and below are 3 more pages of links

regards
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BakUp
Status: Interested
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 17
Location: Minnesota USA
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Super Grub Disk is dead !

Sounds like adrian15 does not like Grub2. I knew he was not going to being releasing any further upgrades of the Super Grub Disk, but I thought it because he would be developing a new Grub2 Super Grub Disk. He is going to spend his time on Rescatux, doesn't Linux have enough rescue disk already ?

www.supergrubdisk.org/forum/index.php?topic=435.0
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techAdmin
Status: Site Admin
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 3786
Location: East Coast, West Coast? I know it's one of them.
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I feel for the author, this constant and never-ending cycle of poorly implemented changes to core systems in linux makes it virtually impossible to have a life and contribute meaningfully over time. Every time I see a dev quit in this way I know just how he / she feels, at some point you wake up and think, cr#p, am I going to have a life or not?
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BakUp
Status: Interested
Joined: 28 Apr 2009
Posts: 17
Location: Minnesota USA
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I understand the frustrations fully !
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aus9
Status: Assistant
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 358
Location: Australia
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BakUp

thanks for the link.

I too want to be deceived my receiving lots of money but I am not a script guy or gal so H2 is more worthy for saving my bacon with smxi so that other guys gets zip...nada...zero etc

clicking on doc link I get a lockout requiring me to be a menber....WT?
rescatux.berlios.de/wiki/

BTW I have always liked sysresccd as the maintainer had no objection to me hosting the grub-legacy stage2 file when I wanted ppl to get splashimage support when their distro had the wrong stage2 file.

I know my grub2 fanboy extremism is not shared by H2 but I am grateful for him accepting my opinion on his site.....unlike some other site I can not remember....heh heh

cheerio
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techAdmin
Status: Site Admin
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 3786
Location: East Coast, West Coast? I know it's one of them.
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aus9, to be clear, I know grub2 is the new reality, my objection to it is that it is basically simply undone, incomplete, user unfriendly, and broke many simple methods to achieve things from grub 1.

This is sort of typical for geek development, and is of course the exact type of issue I was trying to help along with smxi/sgfxi/inxi, and related scripts, making user unfriendly things and processes user friendly.

Basically, grub2 was released in its raw form, without a wrapper. Just as an instance, notice that sidux released the 2009-04 without grub gfx working. This is because that's hard to figure out, complicated syntax, etc. It can be done, and does have new methods available for doing that grub graphics type stuff, but it's raw at this point.

The rawness is what I don't like, the need to edit config files using programming syntax, when the old method did not require that, these are all things that show a lack of care for the needs of the end user.

To give you an example, if I said with inxi, ok, all you need to do to get this output is:

:: Code ::
ls -l /dev/disk/by-label | grep something | grep -v somethingelse > file.txt


then start inxi: inxi -! 45 file.txt

you'd say, you know, that's retarded. But when a core tool like grub2 does something like that, it's accepted as acceptable. To me, new, improved software, should be both technically better, which I assume grub2 is, AS WELL AS MORE USABLE for the end user, the real humans out there that will actually be interacting with it. Skipping this last step and not considering it a core requirement is what's wrong with grub2.
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aus9
Status: Assistant
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 358
Location: Australia
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hi techAdmin

I know you are smarter than me....but maybes.....a bit like a certain car maker and its policy of not wanting home mechainics to work on their precious cars......there was a hidden agenda ......

We don't like newbies playing with our software.....so
We won't make it easy to play with our software.....so
The defaults should always work.

maybe?
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techAdmin
Status: Site Admin
Joined: 26 Sep 2003
Posts: 3786
Location: East Coast, West Coast? I know it's one of them.
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the defaults don't work, in my opinion, if they had I would never have commented on grub2 at all, I would have simply switched over the day it installed by accident on my debian system. My shock arose directly from trying to implement some standard methods and defaults that had been working fine in grub 1, methods that had gone from a very simple 'copy the example in this page' to 'learn complex logics and find stuff scattered all around various config files using methods far more complicated than they used to be, or need to be'.

boot to init 3 by typing in 3, does that work? I'm just asking, I haven't looked at this in depth yet.

I seriously do not think the devs thought about this at all in the way you suggest, I think they simply hacked out a solution that works and gave almost no thought to normal end user usability.

Is anything as clear and easy as editing the kopt line available? I know some of this stuff can be done, in some ways, but it's not as easy to do it. How about updating and adding something like vga=791 to the # kopt line to change the default console font size? I know, again, it can be done, but it's not as clear or easy to do it, it's confusing and unclear, both to me the hallmarks of bad, incomplete, programming, not high level stuff at all.

As someone who hacks now and then, I can promise you, real world hacking works like this, especially when it's free volunteer hacking done by geeks who just are too technically oriented to see when a solution is bad (think, go to #debian, ask for help, someone tells you: vi <filename>...): hack out a solution, make it work. Then go back and make it better, usable, maintainable. The second part is far more difficult, by the way, than the first part, the first part can often be done using super ugly code and ugly methods quite rapidly, the cleanup and actual work happens after, when you make it real world usable and maintainable.

As far as I can tell, forcing users to use programming syntax simply placed a part of the programming job, the part that would parse the config files, on to the end user, that's pure laziness in my opinion, nothing else. A good config file logic would ask: what is the easiest, most clear, and error resistant method we can offer end users? We will do the messy stuff behind the scenes, and keep that out of the public eye.

I was not at all surprised to learn that one of the main grub2 devs was also a debian dev, by the way.

Anyway, we have to learn how to get along with this new stuff, and your documentation will help people do that, I just find it sad that in 2010 we can't advance beyond 1970s/80s type ideas and move on.
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aus9
Status: Assistant
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 358
Location: Australia
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hi

for smxi users, there are 2 choices.

1) at grub2 menu stage...press E to edit relevant menu ....arrow down to linux (=grub-legacy kernel line).....arrow across to end of line
TYPE 3 (for runlevel 3)
PRESS control and x keys to boot which is prompted at bottom of screen

OR

boot up normal and open root terminal ...issue smxi command and your script checks for runlevel and allows users to shutdown X.

2) Using root powers and simple or complex text editors or cli....edit
/etc/default/grub for kernel options

GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=" (insert cheatcodes or kernel parameters)"
without the brackets but include the quotes

and resolution can be done 3 ways

WAY 1) same file edit this line

GRUB_GFXMODE=640x480

then run

:: Code ::

update-grub


WAY 2

Use cheat code for resolution eg vga=793
and any other cheat code and run update-grub

WAY 3

insert a extra line to header to have

set gfxpayload=1024x768

AND for any way remember to run update-grub

but way 3 is nerdy and unlkely for newbies to know or want
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aus9
Status: Assistant
Joined: 21 Sep 2008
Posts: 358
Location: Australia
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hi

if you need to grab older versions (or latest) my aussie mirror has them all here

mirror.internode.on.net/pub/debian/pool/main/g/grub2/

EDIT

ahh sidux has fixed stuff here
sidux.com/debian/pool/fix.main/g/grub2/

< Edited by aus9 :: Jan 31, 10, 23:11 >

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